Amanda Mitten: I love being in my mid-forties. I love being here. I have all the wisdom and I don't give two fucks about a lot of things that I used to

Leah Kern [00:00:08]:
Welcome to shoulders down. A podcast for truth seekers who want to heal their relationships with food and body. I'm your host, Leah Kern, and I'm an anti diet dietitian, certified intuitive eating counselor, and fellow truth seeker with personal experience navigating disordered eating. In this podcast, you'll learn to harness your body's innate wisdom to govern not just how you eat, but also how you live. It's my mission to help you heal your with food and body, so you can live your most aligned and fulfilling life. Welcome, and I'm so glad that you're here. Hello. Welcome back to another episode of shoulders down.

Leah Kern [00:00:48]:
Today, we are talking about perimenopause and how that impacts body image and your relationship with food. Our guest is Amanda Mitten and it was so lovely. She and I had a beautiful connection. We played a little bit of Jewish geography, which if you don't know, that's pretty much when you meet another person who's Jewish. And you start, like, naming places and people and see if you, like, know anything in common. So that was fun and connecting. And, yeah, it was just a really great conversation, and she brought something new to the space that no one on the show has talked about before, which I am

Amanda Mitten [00:01:23]:
so grateful

Leah Kern [00:01:23]:
for. So in this episode, you can expect more specifically, we talk about Amanda's relationship with food and body, her story. We define perimenopause and talk about why we're hearing more about this now. Amanda talks about the damage that diet cultures cause in the perimenopause space, how body grief shows up in midlife and in an aging body. We talk about losing young privilege and how to navigate the feelings that can come with that. And then we also talk about some of Amanda's tips for making it through that part of life that is aging and why community is so important during this time. We cover some other things as well. I can't wait to share this episode with you.

Leah Kern [00:02:05]:
I will introduce Amanda and then we will dive right in. Amanda Mitten is a registered dietitian, certified intuitive eating counselor, and body image coach. She's the owner of Happy Valley Nutrition, a group practice of registered dietitians supporting people with disordered eating, eating disorders, body image, and intuitive eating from a HACE lens. In addition to being an adjunct professor at 2 colleges, she also teaches clinicians how to incorporate body image counseling skills into their practice. Amanda has worked with hundreds of clients in her career and knows that people throughout each of life stages feel so much shame around their body. Whether the client is in college, just had a baby, or in midlife and beyond, the conversation around the distress of a changing body is very similar. It is Amanda's mission to talk about this topic without shame, guilt, or sense of failure, and to understand the systemic forces that cause us to feel the way we do about our body. Welcome to the podcast, Amanda.

Leah Kern [00:03:02]:
So fun to chat. I feel like we already are pals.

Amanda Mitten [00:03:06]:
We are. Yes. So great to be here. Thanks so much for having me.

Leah Kern [00:03:09]:
Yeah. So I love to start with every guest just by giving you the floor to chat about your story with your relationship with food and body as much as you're comfortable getting into.

Amanda Mitten [00:03:21]:
Yeah. Oh, wow. So how much time do we have? No. I'm I'm just kidding. I'll I'll give you the TLDR on it. So I'm a registered dietitian, and I also, you know, work with people to help them in their journey of feeling more peaceful in their relationship with food and their body. And that I do that because we kinda teach what we need. Right? And so that has been my story.

Amanda Mitten [00:03:41]:
Being a dietitian is my 2nd career. I used to work in my family business doing interior design. I lived in New York City, and it was, like, living the life. And it all seemed really great from the outside, but from the inside, it was not good. I was struggling with a lot of disordered eating, very negative, very distressing body image. And it's hard when you go to school to be, you know, back to school or to school to be a nutritionist, and they're talking about food, and they're talking about weight equals health. But, you know, the reason why I went to become a dietitian was because my disorder eating kinda fueled that. You've heard it.

Amanda Mitten [00:04:13]:
You might have experienced it, right, of like, oh, I yeah. I'm really, quote, unquote, healthy. Like, I wanna help others get healthy. And healthy meaning, like, we're gonna help you get thin and lose weight and all that sort of stuff. And then going to school kind of furthered that disordered eating. And then coming out of it, I realized when I started working with clients 1 on 1 and helping do weight loss, because that's what we're taught to do, then everybody would, like, lose a little bit of weight, and then they'd come back to me and they're like, I'm failing. I'm failing. Right? And you kind of realize that the common denominator is yourself as a clinician.

Amanda Mitten [00:04:46]:
And so that really forced me to take a real, like, strong look at my own relationship with food and body. And so I kind of embarked on, you know, intuitive eating and Health at Every Side, and, you know, you listen to all the podcasts. There weren't that many. I mean, I don't think there were that many podcasts when I started doing all this sort of stuff. But you find your people and, you know, the healing starts to happen, and then I'm like, oh, I wanna do this. Right? Like, I don't wanna do a weight loss piece. I don't even know how, quite honestly. I wanna help people, you know, feel better in their skin.

Amanda Mitten [00:05:13]:
And that's kind of where it led me, and I started my own private practice, Happy Valley Nutrition in 2019. And then when the pandemic hits, anybody who is struggling with some sort of body image or food kind of stuff, I feel like anything that was, like, slept under the rug got swept out of the rug, and we just became really busy. And so now I'm so grateful that it's myself and 6 other dietitians who I absolutely adore doing this work. And then this has also led me to, you know, wanting to work with other clinicians and helping them hold the space in conversations to talk around, especially body image. So when I talk to my clients, I'm like, I get it. You know, I have a lot of empathy because I totally get it. I've been in there, especially around body image. I certainly experienced a lot of lows for decades, quite honestly.

Amanda Mitten [00:06:01]:
I'm in my mid forties now, and I'm you never get to the place where, like, I've had it all figured out. Like, I'm good. Right? But I feel like I'm in a place now where I'm like, I feel okay. I feel okay. And I can handle the days when that that don't feel okay.

Leah Kern [00:06:15]:
Yeah. Thank you for sharing those pieces of your story. And it's interesting, like, I talk to a lot of people and hear their stories on this podcast, and there's sort of, like, 2 different themes of, like, one being I started in the weight centric paradigm, like, what we all learn in in school, and then I realized this isn't working. It's like you said, there's a common denominator here and it's the framework that I'm approaching this with. And then, yeah, sometimes there's people who were lucky enough to learn about anti diet intuitive eating earlier on in their education and sort of never really practice from that lens. But I think it's interesting that, like, your experience as a clinician just like it's just more proof. All these people, it works for a little and they come back. On top of our personal lived experiences, there's also that piece as well of, like, seeing it in the people that you worked with.

Amanda Mitten [00:07:02]:
Absolutely. And, you know, I teach as well. I teach at 2 different universities. I teach intro to nutrition. I wanna get my hands on some, like, intro and start to teach students about the weight inclusive world. But, you know, I teach them you know, I have the textbook, and it's still the same shit that we learned, right, of, like basically, I tell my students, I'm like, I gotta be very honest. I don't really like your textbook. It basically says, don't be fat, but also don't get an eating disorder.

Amanda Mitten [00:07:27]:
That's basically the message, and it's awful. And so it can be really, really challenging, you know, for people to, like, hear so many different messages and, I don't know, try to plant seeds a little bit.

Leah Kern [00:07:37]:
And they are so lucky to have you because for me, an intro to nutrition class changed my life. That's I was super lucky to have a professor who brought up intuitive eating freshman year of college. And I should actually connect you with her. She's at the University of Vermont in New England also working on transitioning the curriculum and figuring out the textbook piece. She's been on the podcast twice, actually. That was her big stumbling block of, I can say all this stuff, but, like, you need to have a textbook at for an intro class, and the textbook is, like you're saying, don't be fat, but don't have an eating disorder either.

Amanda Mitten [00:08:07]:
That would be interest that would be so interesting to talk to her because, you know, there's a chapter on, like, weight management, and I'm like, I'm not teaching that chapter. Like, I did a whole thing on health at every size, and I wanna hear some podcast to listen to, like, write a reflection piece. I'm like, I'm not teaching this, and I can't. Like, ethically cannot, and it feels icky. Like, what am I gonna do? Teach you about shit that doesn't even make sense? Like, it's not real. Right? Science has already proved that yeah. So I feel the pain for your colleague and and your former professor and but this is stuff that people are learning. This is stuff that dietitians are learning, and it's almost like we need to take it upon ourselves to unlearn that.

Amanda Mitten [00:08:42]:
You know? And I work with a

Leah Kern [00:08:43]:
lot of

Amanda Mitten [00:08:43]:
dietitians learning body image. They're like, I'm so afraid to have these conversations. I'm like, it's not your fault. It's totally not your fault. Like, look what you learned. You got one class of motivational interviewing, and, like, the rest of it is just how to fix somebody. And so this is a totally separate type of work, so not your fault. Not your fault.

Leah Kern [00:09:03]:
Absolutely. So you now focus a lot on perimenopause, and I would love to just define for listeners what is perimenopause and why are we hearing about this more now?

Amanda Mitten [00:09:14]:
Oof. Yes. Perimenopause. Love to, like, shout it from the rooftops. I'm sure you're seeing it a lot of it. And let me just say, like, perimenopause well, let me back up. Menopause, I'm sure we've all heard of that. Right? So menopause is actually like a day.

Amanda Mitten [00:09:28]:
So it's a full year without having a menstrual period, so it's that kind of a time when, like, you are done. Right? You are done, and now you're, you know, you're you're postmenopausal. Right? You can have be in early menopause and late menopause, but menopause really is that day, right, in which it's been 365 without a period. And I can't tell you how many of my clients are so upset because they've made it, like, 7 months and then they're, like, had a period. They're like, no. I have to start from the beginning again. But perimenopause is kind of this, like, this space, right, that can be anywhere up to, like, 10 years, right, starting in your mid thirties. The average age that people go into menopause is around 51, but it can be earlier than that.

Amanda Mitten [00:10:07]:
It can certainly be later than that. And so perimenopause is that space of around it of this time where things are starting to slow down. Right? Like, your estrogen, it's starting to decline. You have estrogen, progesterone, all the hormones. My mother calls it a toxic soup or hormone soup. Right? Like and you're feeling a lot of different symptoms because things are changing. And it is a very confusing time for people. It has been for me because nobody's like, hey.

Amanda Mitten [00:10:33]:
So, like, your skin's feeling really itchy. Like, that's a thing. Right? Or, like, I'm waking up and I'm, like, totally sweaty or the mood stuff, the anxiety, and the depression. Nobody's really talking about their experiences, and yet, we are all those of us who are in this space are experiencing it. And so I'd like to always talk about things that feel taboo and just normalize it because we know shame doesn't help anything. So you're hearing a lot I mean, I think you're hearing a lot about the perimenopausal and menopausal space now. I mean, if you kinda scroll through social media, because a lot of the influencers or famous people, they're kind of in that space now. So, like, I think of Gwenapaltro.

Amanda Mitten [00:11:14]:
I think of Drew Barrymore was doing something with menopause or perimenopause. The thing is that they're trying to sell you it's diet culture all over again. They're trying to sell you, like, a supplement or hormone replacement, which is really important and can be super helpful for people. Really needs to be managed through a doctor, not just something that you're buying on the Internet. So I think diet culture has gotten its little hands into this space, And so now we have a whole kind of population of people thinking, okay, I need to lose weight because I'm gaining weight or I'm gaining weight around my midsection. Meanwhile, that's supposed to happen. Right? Or my body feels different. How do I fix it? Again, we're giving people these quick fixes or your cortisol is too hot.

Amanda Mitten [00:12:03]:
Like, there's a whole cortisol thing happening on on the Internet. And so, again, people are just really confused. They're unhappy. They don't like where they are. They don't like their bodies, and they're confused.

Leah Kern [00:12:13]:
Yeah. It sounds like such classic diet culture to, like, prey on a population of people who are vulnerable and that they're going through changes. They don't like the changes, and here's the fix that I can sell you. So you mentioned conversations around, you know, weight in your midsection, cortisol. What are some of the other, like, just to give some, like, explicit examples here, kind of examples of the damage diet culture has caused in the perimenopause space?

Amanda Mitten [00:12:38]:
Oh, let me just say this too is that disordered eating definitely rises around this kind of age time. So anytime you have, like, bodies changing or transitions. Right? So we think about, like, puberty. We think about people having children. Right? Anytime there's some, like, body changes or life transitions, disordered eating is gonna go up. Right? Because there's so much body dissatisfaction. And so this is a space in which it is. And, also, I just wanna say too, on the other hand, I have clients who have been dieting for decades, and now they're in their, like, fifties sixties, and they're like, I don't wanna do this anymore.

Amanda Mitten [00:13:12]:
So there is some, like, really great stuff happening as well, but I think diet culture has definitely got its hands on the weight piece. It's definitely got its hands in, we shouldn't age or there's a right way to age. We should look older, right, or need to age gracefully. We need to buy products so that, like, you know, we don't have wrinkles or so there's this whole, like, the antiaging stuff that can feel really hard. And I think, especially for women who have had children around this time, like, children are typically a little bit older. They don't typically don't need us as much. And so we're trying to find out, like, where are we? Like, who are we in our world? Right? Because we're not having children anymore. Right? It's kinda like the end of that.

Amanda Mitten [00:13:56]:
And so what is our use? Back in the day, there there really wasn't any use. Right? Women would die really early, and there was no thought of women's kind of quality of life after raising children, but now it's like we live for a really long time. And so there is also kind of this who am I now in this space.

Leah Kern [00:14:14]:
Right. This identity of if I'm no longer, like, needed as much as a mother, caretaker, then who am I now? So I've worked with a bunch of clients who have have shared the grief that comes with realizing losing, like, young privilege. And I wonder how we can talk about this and, like, work through navigating something that's, like, very real in our society. It's a real currency being pretty privileged, young privileged, all the other white privilege, thin privilege, all the different, like, intersections of privilege. But what can someone do who is in an aging body, specifically, I think talking about the identity of being female to sort of, like, walk through or or grapple with the the realization that, like, young privilege is something that is no longer there or or is they're losing?

Amanda Mitten [00:15:09]:
I just, like, had to take a deep breath on that just because, like, I feel that. I remember that we were talking about Amherst straight, like, this big college town where my office is. I remember walking into a pizza restaurant, a pizza you know, just, like, getting a slice of pizza. And I was the oldest person in there, and I'm like, I'm invisible. Like, nobody noticed me. And it's fun. Right? And I don't wanna just talk on that, the flip side of that, but I just remember walking in and, like, leaving just feeling, like, so sad. Like, at that moment, it hit me.

Amanda Mitten [00:15:37]:
I'm like, nobody fucking notices me. And I felt really sad, and that was a while ago. But now I also wanna say there is some freedom in person that nobody's really paying attention to. Right? Because then that gives us, oh, like, give a shit. Right? Like, nobody's paying attention to me anyway. So there is a little bit of freedom in that, and I also wanna acknowledge the grief. And I know you talk about grief a lot of, like, this grief of things are different, things are changing, my body maybe is changing, and I don't have any control over it. That feels really scary.

Amanda Mitten [00:16:09]:
Or, like, am I stuck like this? Right? Or, and I think the most important thing that people can do is find community and find others. I have friends of all different ages, my friends who are in their mid forties as well going through this. You know, we send each other memes all the time. We're like, oh my god. Like, I walked into a room, and I forgot what I was doing. Does that happen to you? Right? Or, like, I'm, you know, perry rage. Like, I'm just I wanna punch somebody in the face right now. And, like, they get it.

Amanda Mitten [00:16:36]:
And so I think finding community and finding others and and also finding some humor in it, if possible, goes a long way because you can feel, like, really alone in this.

Leah Kern [00:16:48]:
I know Bree talks about, like, she has this saying of people to sit on the grief bench with you of just like, yep. This sucks, and we can laugh about it and be in this together. I think about the concept of, like, intergenerational friendships a lot. So, like, people who are going through the same thing as you, but also maybe people who are older and people who are younger, just really maintaining perspective. I do these hiking trips in the summer. And a few summers ago, one of my best friends and I met these 2 women who were, like, in their late sixties. And, like, they were 2 best friends. We were 2 best friends in different stages of life, different generations, and we've stayed really close with them.

Leah Kern [00:17:25]:
If I was in my office, I'd show you my little picture with the the 4 of us. And I don't know. I just find it healing, and it it's just a reminder. There's people at all different stages of life with different things going on. Like, I feel like in college, actually, like, you really forget that because it's just like you're surrounded by all people your age and, like, a college town, like Amherst. It's, like, everywhere. Like, the pizza shop, the downtown, it's just, like, so college centric. And, yeah, I remember having a moment in college where I was like, woah.

Leah Kern [00:17:52]:
I'm, like, craving hanging out with people who are different ages just for that, like, kind of perspective and groundedness that it provides.

Amanda Mitten [00:17:59]:
Yeah. I love that you're still friends with those 2 women. That's so cool. What a special friendship. And I think what's passed down is, like, menopause is the worst, and you're a dried up shriveled old hag and you, like, you know, you have no sex drive and you're just yeah. And the truth of the matter is I think it's so important to see people, like, of all different ages, like, just living it. Right? I'm like, yeah. Okay.

Amanda Mitten [00:18:22]:
Like, some of it's kind of weird and, like, I didn't expect this. Some of it is kind of funny and some of it's kind of awful, but, like, I'm still okay. Right? To know, like, you know, you might be headed this way in 20 or so years or whatever, but, like, it's okay. Like, we've come before you and, you know, maybe we figured some things out along the way to help you. But there wasn't a lot of that beforehand. Right? It wasn't menopause wasn't talked about. Like, I'm watching a show called called The Midwife. I don't know if you've heard of it.

Amanda Mitten [00:18:51]:
It's a British show, but it takes place in the early sixties, and they weren't talking about it at all. Right? They called it, like, I'm going through the change. Right? That's all they said, like, the change. Right? And I'm like, oh my god. There's so much more to say about it. And I think it's great now that people are talking about it. And this is why now though that it has been kind of tainted with diet culture messages, antiaging, so supplement heavy. Again, I love a good supplement, but take this and, like, everything's gonna go away.

Amanda Mitten [00:19:20]:
And it's like, you can't stop your body from aging like this. Like, it's not gonna put it off. It is what it is.

Leah Kern [00:19:26]:
What advice would you give to someone who is noticing themselves feeling vulnerable and, like, those targeted ads are sounding a little bit more tempting than maybe they once did related to aging and body changes? What do you think could be some helpful words for that person?

Amanda Mitten [00:19:41]:
Yeah. Well, first, I just like a virtual hug and just compassion because, like, sometimes those things tempt me as well because they're so effective and so promising. So so I just wanna say, like, I am like you too and

Leah Kern [00:19:53]:
The marketing is effective, to clarify.

Amanda Mitten [00:19:55]:
Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. The marketing. Yes. Very effective for sure.

Leah Kern [00:19:57]:
You're like, oh, I want that.

Amanda Mitten [00:19:59]:
I want what they're having. And I guess I just wanna say that this is a normal part of the process. You feeling grief around what is happening in your body is normal. This is part of the journey. It's not like nothing wrong is happening. And in fact, if you're feeling upset about something or the fact that your body is changing or you're upset about aging, like, what what story are you telling yourself about aging or about your changing body? What messages have you learned or have have you absorbed about what it's like to age or have a changing body? And so that's the first thing that I, you know, like do with clients. I'm like, so what do you know? Like, what have you heard? What is the story that you're telling yourself around what it's like to age? And does that align with your values, and does that feel right to you? Because some people are like, well, this is what I learned, but, like, I don't really want that or, like, I don't think I believe that. It's like, cool.

Amanda Mitten [00:20:55]:
Cool. Alright. So we we know that. Let's just, like, hold that space for a while, and then we can figure out what do you want this next stage of your life to be like? Because there's, again, some incredible I love being in my mid 40. I love being here. I have all the wisdom and I don't give 2 fucks about a lot of things that I used to. Right? There's so many beautiful things happening. How can we take you from this place of grief, right, to a place of acceptance, full well knowing that there are going to be moments where we kind of travel back into grief, and that's normal.

Amanda Mitten [00:21:28]:
And how do we help find you support for those times when you're not feeling so great about it?

Leah Kern [00:21:32]:
This question of what's the story you're telling yourself, so powerful. And is that aligned with your values? Because yeah. I can just imagine the things I've heard with clients. You know, I'm telling myself that I'm less worthy now that I'm my body's changing or I'm aging. And it's like, okay, well, would you look at someone who has a changing body and is aging? And is it aligned with your values to say, this person's less worthy now. And so often, clients are able to be like, of course not. That's not me. And I think that can be such a powerful sort of disconnect to highlight.

Amanda Mitten [00:22:03]:
Yeah. I also find that people in this stage are almost like, I'm just done thinking about my body for such a big chunk of my life. Like, I'm just done. Right? Like, I don't want it. And, like, that's kind of what I tell myself sometimes when I'm experiencing, yeah, these, like, bad bodied moments. I'm just like, I don't I don't wanna spend my time here again. Like, I've already spent so long there. Let's just, like, take care, right, however I need to take care of myself and, like, move on because I don't wanna sit in this space of something's wrong.

Amanda Mitten [00:22:34]:
That's just not helpful right now.

Leah Kern [00:22:37]:
Right. Especially when you've had so much time and energy already stolen from you from history of being in diet culture, which yeah. A lot of the women I work with, it's like decades. And in my experience, it's resonated that there's, like, the folks who become more focused on their body through aging, but then there's also, like and you highlighted this, the folks who are like, now that I'm, you know, at this next stage of life, I just am so done. I don't want to think about this anymore. And it's interesting how it could go either way.

Amanda Mitten [00:23:10]:
It really is. And I think sometimes people will try. I'm like, okay. Like, I'm gonna try and, like, get myself together. Like, I'm gonna get this shit figured out. I'm gonna, like, lose my belly fat and, like, whatever. And then it doesn't work because it was never supposed to, and then they're like, I'm done. I'm really done.

Amanda Mitten [00:23:24]:
Full well acknowledging that, like, it's understandable to wanna change your body. And I don't know if we have enough great role models of older people rocking it, you know, of just being like, this is how I'm living, this is what I'm doing, and I'm not changing or anything. And so I do think there's kind of, like, a lack of of influencers kind of in that space for sure.

Leah Kern [00:23:44]:
And in terms of, like, building community, it could be, like, you know, texting your friends memes, but it could also be finding people in the media to follow and to kind of expand your neural pathways of, like, look. There's proof out here of it's possible to have, like, a freeing relationship with your body versus the stories and the norms that are taught in sort of the mainstream of your old, washed up, whatever. And, yeah, I think seeking those examples can be really powerful for our brains to be like, yeah. Here's proof.

Amanda Mitten [00:24:15]:
Exactly. Exactly. And I think a lot of the when I think of some celebrities that are talking about their bodies, like, I think of Jamie Lee Curtis who's, like, just super awesome. There was somebody else who was on a talk show and, like, talking about her body, and they're coming from women in smaller bodies.

Leah Kern [00:24:31]:
Well, who is the woman on Sports Illustrated who it was, like, such a big deal. There was an older woman on Sports Illustrated, but she was super conventionally attractive and Martha Stewart? Martha Stewart. Yeah. Martha Stewart. Yeah. Like, that whole thing. And it's like, okay. Everyone's like, yay.

Leah Kern [00:24:45]:
Celebrate that there's, like, older people. Okay. But she doesn't represent any of the things that people are struggling with in an aging body. Right.

Amanda Mitten [00:24:52]:
And she's probably had a lot of work done, and that's cool. Like, she can do her. And, you know, it's it's a same and and if you're not in the par like, you know, the paranormal halls of space. But, like, when we see these messages coming from thin white people, that is not helpful for a lot of us. Right? It's like, good for you. Like, it's safe for you to, like, have a little bit of a belly because of who you are, but it doesn't feel safe for me to have that. So, again, I think we need to do a lot better with representation and it kind of in this kind of older space, but hopefully, we'll we'll get there. Everybody will get old eventually and occupy the space.

Leah Kern [00:25:26]:
And still be on Instagram and TikTok.

Amanda Mitten [00:25:29]:
Yes. Unfortunately, yes. I think so.

Leah Kern [00:25:31]:
I like to ask everyone who comes on the show, what is your biggest diet culture pet peeve? But I think for you to make it specific to this conversation, what's your biggest pet peeve as it relates to, like, diet culture in the perimenopause space?

Amanda Mitten [00:25:46]:
Okay. I know exactly what I'm gonna say. My biggest pet peeve are doctors who do not listen to people in perimenopause and women doctors who do not listen to their clients. Right? And so it's happens all the time. I'm sorry. I'm getting, like, kinda day, right? There have been a bunch of things. There's a lot of stuff, kind of, think of it in our space to be pissed off on these days. But, you know, I had so a client of mine, her partner was experiencing a lot of vasomotor symptoms, meaning hot flashes.

Amanda Mitten [00:26:15]:
Right? That's one of the ones I think that we think about. Right? Menopause, sweaty. This person was having just such severe hot flashes, and she went to her PCP, who's a woman, and was like, I am suffering. Like, she needs hormone therapy. Right? And the doctor was like, okay. Well, first, I want you to listen to this podcast, and then I want you to go on a vegan diet. Okay? And the client was already vegan. Like, she's vegan.

Amanda Mitten [00:26:43]:
She's already she she's vegan diet. He's like, okay. Someone listen to this pod. Like, she cannot get help. And there are just here so many women are just, like, gaslit or, like, oh, just go on birth control, and that can be helpful, but, like, not for everybody. And so, again, I think that this is a newer space. People just don't understand, and I think we're dismissed and not listened to. And people, like and I think in the medical community just don't really know what to do.

Amanda Mitten [00:27:11]:
I get really upset for my clients, you know, hearing that. And you see on social media, like, a lot of doctors who are out there and they're in the menopause space and they're menopause experts and they're MDs, but they're out there talking about their supplements and why you should be taking all of these supplements. They're out there talking about, like, gotta lose the belly fat. They're just, like, promoting these messages that are just just not helpful. They're not disseminating, like, the truth, right, of, like, whatever you're experiencing is is normal. And if you feel like it isn't, you need to seek help. Right? Not, like, take more magnesium.

Leah Kern [00:27:45]:
And I hear in this the piece about kind of the underlying message of, like, personal responsibility of, like, if you were just eating vegan, then you wouldn't have hot flashes versus, like, yeah, hot flashes happen as a part of this journey. It sucks, and, like, let's get you some evidence based care.

Amanda Mitten [00:28:02]:
Yeah. Exactly. And the personal responsibility, if nothing come you know, comes up. I did this to myself or if I ate healthier, if I, like what should I eat so, like, I won't have I'm like, yes. We can definitely there is gentle nutrition around perimenopause and menopause. Like, really some beautiful things that we can add in, not remove anything, but, like, add in that could feel supportive. But if you're thinking, oh, I did this because it's, like, you know, this is part because of my weight or because I'm not eating a certain way, it's like, no. That's not how it works.

Amanda Mitten [00:28:31]:
And and it's very individual. Everybody's experience largely tied to genetics And, you know, some people kinda sail through, and they're like, I I'm not experiencing anything. And some people kind of, you know, like, crawl their way to the finish line here, and it typically it does get better.

Leah Kern [00:28:48]:
Yeah. The other question I like to ask everyone who comes on is talking about anti diet and intuitive eating. I got really interested in asking people about what intuition means because it's such a loaded word. So I wanna ask you, Amanda, what does intuition mean to you and how do you experience it?

Amanda Mitten [00:29:07]:
That's a beautiful question. I think intuition and intuitive being is just knowing knowing what's right for you and also knowing when something isn't right. Like, this doesn't feel like this is normal or, like, especially in this space, right, if we're talking about perimenopausal, like, this feels different, right, of just being aware of, yeah, like, where you're at, like, what the changes you're experiencing, and, like, how are they affecting you, and do you then need to check on that with somebody? Right? So, like, for instance, for me personally, I'm like, wow, I have really noticed just being intuitive and, like, seeing how I am that my moods have really shifted. I have a heck more anxiety than I've ever had and, yeah, just more lows. And I could have just sat with them and been like, I don't know what's happening, but, like, something isn't right. And so that then caused me to, like, seek support in different ways. So I think it's just deep knowing and just deep understanding of, like, yeah, what's what's happening, what's changing, and then does this feel like normal, or does this feel like I need a little more support?

Leah Kern [00:30:19]:
Yeah. That's beautiful. And is there anything we miss or anything else on your heart that you're feeling called to share?

Amanda Mitten [00:30:26]:
I wanted to say, like, if you're someone in this space, like, talk to your friends about this stuff. Everybody is experiencing their own version of perimenopause, and everybody feels really lonely. And and the reason why I know that is because I am someone I am also not only a member, but, you know, not only the president, but a member too. I experienced that too, and I wanna have these conversations with other people about what is it like to be in this space. And so if there if you're feeling shameful, if you're having any questions, if you feel like, oh my god. Is this normal? I don't know. Just talk about it. People need to hear.

Amanda Mitten [00:31:01]:
And then also, I wanted to say, like, find good resources about it. Right? If you're, like, scrolling through social media and you see the pills or you see the this and that or, like, lose the belly fat, take a deep breath and find some, like, good evidence based practice, evidence based, yeah, around that. So and and also just wanna say, like, to people experiencing it, just take care. I mean, right? Like, there's a lot of ups and downs, and it's a wild ride, and there's, like, no map. There is no map. You do not know what the heck is gonna happen, and that can feel really vulnerable and scary. And so just to, like, take care of yourself as best as possible and whatever that means to you.

Leah Kern [00:31:39]:
Yeah. I love those words. And where can someone get connected with you to learn more about your work?

Amanda Mitten [00:31:46]:
Yeah. So my private practice is called Happy Valley Nutrition and happyvaluenutrition.com, and we're located in Western Massachusetts, but we see people, you know, from all over with insurance. And then if there are clinicians or professionals in the kind of, like, nutrition or therapy space listening to this, you can find me on social media. It's at bitchen body image r d on social media.

Leah Kern [00:32:10]:
And for awesome body image supervision. Amazing. Thank you so much, Amanda. I'm so glad that we got to have this conversation.

Amanda Mitten [00:32:18]:
Same. Thanks so much for having me.

Leah Kern [00:32:25]:
Thanks so much for tuning in to this week's episode of Shoulders Down. If you enjoyed the episode, if it inspired you, or if you learned something, consider sharing it with someone to help spread the anti diet message. A special thanks to Softer Sounds for producing the podcast and making these conversations sound as beautiful as they feel. For more intuitive eating and body image support, visit leokerenrd.com and check out the blog and our free resources. To stay in tune with me and what's happening in my business and personal life, subscribe to my newsletter at leokernrd.com/newsletter. Thanks for listening. Talk to you soon.