Erika Bent: When I went through cancer, I had so much shame and guilt around it. I absolutely felt like it was my fault. It challenged my identity because I thought I was a quote unquote, healthy person. And what did I do to cause this disease?

Leah Kern [00:00:08]:
Welcome to shoulders down. A podcast for truth seekers who want to heal their relationships with food and body. I'm your host, Leah Kern, and I'm an anti diet dietitian, certified intuitive eating counselor, and fellow truth seeker with personal experience navigating disordered eating. In this podcast, you'll learn to harness your body's innate wisdom to govern not just how you eat, but also how you live. It's my mission to help you heal your with food and body so you can live your most aligned and fulfilling life. Welcome, and I'm so glad that you're here. Hello, and welcome back to another episode of shoulders down. Today, I am joined by a psychotherapist who I met recently as I'm getting more connected with the local community of anti diet disordered eating providers here in the Bay area.

Leah Kern [00:01:00]:
I moved here a little over a year ago from New York, so still getting to know the local people and Erica is so wonderful. I am so excited for you to hear this conversation with her. She very bravely and vulnerably shares about her story with getting diagnosed with cancer and how that impacted her own recovery, how she worked through this belief that her health is her fault, her cancer is her fault, How self compassion was really supportive for her in moving through her recovery through cancer, how having cancer impacted her body image and her relationship with her body. And we also talked about what it looked like to advocate for her needs, even if that meant foregoing doctor's recommendations in order to protect her own recovery. This is such a juicy episode and I'm so excited for you to hear this conversation with Erika. So I'm going to share Erika's bio, so you can learn a little bit more background about her and then we will dive right in with today's episode. Erica is a psychotherapist with 15 years of experience and the founder of Cypress Wellness Collective, a group practice that specializes in mental health and eating disorder recovery in the San Francisco Bay Area. Erica is a specialist in eating disorder recovery and is a certified eating disorder consultant and supervisor with the International Association of Eating Disorder Professionals.

Leah Kern [00:02:26]:
She has expertise with family therapy and is certified in family based treatment. Erica lives in San Francisco with her partner. In her downtime, she enjoys aerial skills, hiking, and yoga. Welcome to the podcast, Erica. I'm so excited to get to know you live. It's always nice when, like, I'm getting to know you in real time with the people as well.

Erika Bent [00:02:46]:
Great. Thanks so much for having me, Leah. I'm so happy to be here and just excited to be a part of your podcast.

Leah Kern [00:02:53]:
Yay. So I like to start with this question because I personally am always so interested in people's stories, and I know my listeners are too. It could be so healing. Listening to education about intuitive eating and body image is great, but there's nothing like hearing other people's stories as a healing mechanism. So I'd love to have you start with sharing your story with your relationship with Food and Body as much as you're comfortable getting into.

Erika Bent [00:03:19]:
Absolutely. I am happy to share, and it's a long story as I'm sure everyone's relationship with their body is. So I will give you the highlights. I speak from a place of privilege. I'll start there. I am a cisgender female in a white, thin, short body. And when I was young, I received a lot of praise and positive reinforcement for my body. Being small, being thin, all of that stuff that is so valued in diet culture.

Erika Bent [00:03:51]:
And I think growing up, it became an identity. I internalized those messages and equated them to my worth. And so when I went through puberty and just became a woman and developed curves, I think it really was an identity crisis. And at that point, I think, like, many people engaged in disordered eating and really embraced diet culture. I don't even think I had any awareness of it at the time, you know, high school, college. It wasn't until I became a psychology major and started studying anorexia in a research lab with one of my professors that I started to learn what eating disorders were and what disordered eating was and could recognize some of those behaviors and beliefs in myself and then recognize the pervasiveness in my college campus. And that's really what propelled me into my own healing journey and to become an eating disorder therapist. And that's where I've spent, you know, the last 15 years or so of my life.

Erika Bent [00:05:03]:
And then much later in life, in my late twenties, I was diagnosed with breast cancer, and that kinda rocked my world and my relationship with my body in a whole another way that I I couldn't have imagined, and and we can dive into this, but my healing journey through cancer was complex and really challenging in challenging my beliefs and my behaviors around food and body and having to kind of unlearn certain ways that I've been living my life and relearn other ways. So, for example, like, how to incorporate some of the recommendations from the cancer world around health and healing when it comes to food and how you eat for exercise and all of those things. And many of those recommendations clashed with intuitive eating principles or the things that I had learned to embrace in my own healing journey. And so that was a very complex and challenging experience, and I think we'll dive into that more in this conversation today. But where I am now is, I I will say, more balanced with all of it, but but it has been a a harrowing and and humbling road to get there.

Leah Kern [00:06:24]:
Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for sharing those pieces of your journey, and I definitely wanna dive more to how getting diagnosed with cancer and going through treatment sort of rocked your recovery. Because I think when you and I were speaking the first time, you said something like, you know, when it's life or death, suddenly your belief systems is are really put to the test. So I'd love to hear you kinda expand on that a little more. Like, what do you feel like it was about getting diagnosed with cancer that impacted your relationship with food and your body so deeply?

Erika Bent [00:06:57]:
Thanks for asking that question. I mean, 1st and foremost, it is life and death. And when you're in that early phase of recovery, like just being diagnosed, it's terrifying. And there's so much uncertainty, and so it's a very vulnerable place to be. And for me, personally, I cope through education and just resourcing myself, so I delved into a ton of research. I started doing a lot of different healing therapies. I started working with a naturopathic doctor in addition to conventional medicines and my other western medicine doctors, and it was a very confusing path. I got a lot of recommendations that were conflicting recommendations, but I think one of the hardest things for me was working with my naturopathic doctor who had very strict recommendations around food and exercise.

Erika Bent [00:07:59]:
And in the cancer space, there is some research around simple carbohydrates fuel cancer. Right? They kind of feed the cancer cells, and that causes them to grow and flourish. So cut out all simple carbohydrates. Or for chemo to be the most effective, you need to be fasting for 48 hours during your chemo treatments. And just so many other recommendations like that where when I was in a very vulnerable space of I'm gonna do everything I possibly can to fight this cancer, I embraced many of these recommendations because I thought I had to to survive Even though they went against everything that I had unlearned about diet culture in 15 years prior and had been practicing intuitive eating principles. It was such a huge contrast, but I felt I had to. So that was really hard, philosophically, just to get my head around even doing some of these things. And then I did many of them, and the more I embraced some of these rigid, restricted methods around food, the more my mental health struggled and the more I experienced morality around food and cravings to binge eat on those foods that I'm not supposed to have and negative body image thoughts, Like, everything that I was struggling with in my early adolescence and young adulthood just kinda came flooding back.

Leah Kern [00:09:39]:
Yeah. I also think about the piece of how stressful it is to follow these kind of rigid protocols. And especially in the context of having a history of disordered eating or an eating disorder. And, like, sort of the irony of how often that's missed in the naturopathic and space of how is this landing for you, and what is the impact of stress on your system's ability to fight cancer? I just feel like so often that piece is left out where it's like, do all of these things, but forget about how it's actually landing for you.

Erika Bent [00:10:10]:
Mhmm. Yeah. Absolutely. I think that was one of the things that was so challenging. Again, being in a really vulnerable space, and there's this power differential in the room with my doctors. Like, they're the authority on this disease. I don't know anything about it, and they're gonna make these recommendations. But me trying to follow these recommendations, it's not black and white.

Erika Bent [00:10:38]:
It's not like, yes. I'm just gonna go do that and cut out all simple carbohydrates without it having an impact on my mental health or this idea of if I'm not able to follow through, then there's something wrong with me, or I feel guilty that I'm not able to follow the recommendations, or, you know, all of the that self deprecating or negative thought patterns and that feeling of helplessness or hopelessness.

Leah Kern [00:11:04]:
Right. These recommendations don't exist in a vacuum. It's not like we just change what you're eating, and it won't impact your mental health or your stress levels or anything else. Erica, I'm so curious. How did you figure out what you would follow and what you would say though this like you mentioned, though, there's this power differential and I'm being recommended this by a professional. I'm actually gonna choose to forego that. How did you go about that decision making process?

Erika Bent [00:11:32]:
It was hard. I remember when I was following these recommendations, like, I was restricting many different foods. I was tried fasting through chemo. There were these moments that I had with myself where I kind of broke down, and and it really was the struggle with body image that surfaced because cancer doesn't theoretically have anything to do with body image. So the moment that I started experiencing negative body image thought was a huge wake up call for me. And I'm lucky, I think, I'm fortunate because I'd been in this space as a professional for so long and had been practicing and preaching this to my clients for so long. I was so aware of it when it happened. And I think that awareness really helped me take a deep look at what was going on and grapple with the idea that maybe following these recommendations wasn't the healthiest for me.

Erika Bent [00:12:34]:
And, yeah, it was in those darkest moments of difficulty with my body that I was like, I can't keep doing this. If I'm not able to feel healthy with my mental health, how am I going to fight cancer and, like, stay on this path of recovery? Like, if I can't be strong and have a healing relationship and feel connected to my body, then how are we gonna fight this together? So it was hard. It was really, really hard. And then it was a decision of what recommendations can I follow and what recommendations am I going to let go of? And I think that's a really personal choice. It was the recommendations that were less rigid that really allowed me to be flexible and to approach food and body decisions from a place of balance that didn't harm my mental health.

Leah Kern [00:13:27]:
And what were those conversations like with your providers around you advocating for your needs, even if it meant foregoing the doctor's recommendations? How did those conversations look? Did you do any, like, education with them around your background with disordered eating, both personally and professionally? Or, I mean, I imagine that's a lot of labor, especially when you're in such a intense situation, like battling cancer? What was that part of your story like?

Erika Bent [00:13:55]:
It was different, I think, based on the doctor I was speaking to or the professional I was speaking to. I think my naturopathic doctor didn't wanna hear it.

Leah Kern [00:14:05]:
That checks out from my what I've heard about that community. Yeah.

Erika Bent [00:14:08]:
Yeah. It felt very my way is the highway kind of thing, and I didn't really feel like I had a lot of space to share my experience. I did feel whether it was my own internalized experience or it was real, I felt a lot of guilt for sharing something that would go against recommendation. And I felt a lot of, if you don't follow this, then you are contributing to your risk of recurrence. Right? And what I hear in the black and white terms is if you don't do this, then you will die. And so what I found is that I didn't talk to my naturopathic doctor so much about the things that I wasn't going to follow. What I did do was talk a lot about it with my therapist. And I think my therapist was the one who really helped me discern what decisions do I need to make for myself and how can I be an advocate for that even if it goes against recommendations? And how can you arm yourself with knowledge from other sources so that you don't feel like you're doing something wrong.

Erika Bent [00:15:22]:
And so I sought out other doctors who maybe were a little bit more balanced around these things, and that was really helpful for me to stay steady and and do what I needed to do.

Leah Kern [00:15:32]:
Are you familiar with Christy Harrison's book, The Wellness Trap? She talks so much about how there's like this pipeline between the naturopathic, homeopathic, like alternative medicine space, and the wellness trap, really, disordered eating. In your view, being someone who was, like, really on the inside of that, what is that pipeline like? Why is it that maybe going to a naturopathic doctor is more likely to lead to sort of these, like, restrictive thoughts and obsessions versus maybe some other kinds of providers? Or or do you even agree with that?

Erika Bent [00:16:06]:
I do agree with it from, like, a lived experience. When I was working with conventional medicine doctors, they had a lot of recommendations around big treatments. Right? Chemotherapy, radiation, medication, and and you need an antibiotic, like, things like that. But they weren't actually making a lot of recommendations around nutrition or supplements or lifestyle choices other than, like, don't smoke, those kinds of things. And there's a lot of bias too around weight in the cancer space, and so I heard a lot of that from conventional medicine doctor. Actually, both sides. But they didn't talk so much about the nuances. But when I worked with my naturopathic doctor, there was a lot of very clear strict recommendations around supplements, nutrition, exercise, where your body is supposed to be from a weight perspective.

Erika Bent [00:17:11]:
It was easier to fall into that trap because they were talking about it a lot more, and it felt like they had such a strong authority on it. And my naturopathic doctor was really great at providing me research because that's how I learned. And so I always ask, give me the research. I wanna know. And there is research. There's so many studies that she could pull on and be like, here's the research for this food and why it's bad for you. But as we know in the field of research, especially in nutrition, it's so biased and it's very controversial. And when there's one article that supports this, there's another article that doesn't support it.

Erika Bent [00:17:48]:
And in hindsight, I didn't know all of that at the time and I would just follow whatever was recommended. So it was easy to fall into that trap because, again, you're in a vulnerable state, and they have the authority, and they're giving you information and in a way where it's just you need to do this. And if you don't, very linearly, then something bad will happen to you.

Leah Kern [00:18:10]:
Did you feel like you got something from the naturopathic doctor? Or looking back, is it something that you feel like caused more harm than good?

Erika Bent [00:18:20]:
I think I got a lot of great things from that provider. So it's not all one-sided. And much of that was education around, you know, how my cancer operated and certain recommendations around health that were balanced. And I think the most harmful thing was the rigidity around food recommendations, that it was an all or nothing mindset, that there was morality around food. And we know that humans are complex, and nothing is that linear. And so I wish there was more flexibility around communicating recommendations that allowed me to take the recommendation and education, but then apply it to my body and my health and my mental health and be able to be trusted to make an informed decision for me.

Leah Kern [00:19:16]:
Yeah. And I just think about the unintentional shame that comes from moralizing food because then inherently, like, if you choose the thing that the doctor is kind of clearly saying I mean, I guess sometimes it's clear and sometimes it's more like implicit that this is a no food or this is a bad food. Then, of course, if that's something that you choose to eat, you have that in your head and the added layer of the power differential, this is a professional. I see that with my clients all the time where they're like this person in a white coat who in our society we've been seen, I guess, rightfully so. Right? Doctors know so much. They're incredible resources, and medicine is in such an advanced place. And I always think about doctors are still humans subject to the same diet culture, weight, stigma, norms that the rest of the world is. And if not, sometimes, like, even more so because, I mean, I know from having an education in dietetics, you get, like, extra steeped in this stuff when you when you have a education in health science because that's so much like what the textbook say of, like, BMI and yes and no foods and all of that.

Leah Kern [00:20:25]:
So I think it's helpful to remember, like, doctors are just people too. You know? They're not gods.

Erika Bent [00:20:31]:
Yeah. Absolutely. And, honestly, that's one of my biggest pet peeves, providers, is when they make recommendations and maybe don't have awareness of their own implicit bias. You know, we all do that. We all have an implicit bias, but I think if you're a provider working with other with clients when they're vulnerable, like, we have to lead from that place of, you know, this is what I understand, and it's not everything, and I might be missing something, or how can we adapt this to really support you in what's true for you? So I just feel like we all have to recognize we come from a diet culture bias or whatever our biases are.

Leah Kern [00:21:14]:
Absolutely. I'm feeling really called to share this with you. So a few maybe, like, 2 months ago or something at this point, my mom, they found a mass on her thyroid, and she's okay. She got it out 2 weeks ago, and she's recovering. But my first thought, even again being an anti dietitian and intuitive eating practitioner was, oh my God, was it something she did? And how quickly when it's a vulnerable situation, like, I just think about how our brains are really wired. Like, we like things that are clear and this caused this and this is why. Like, we like to try and make sense of things. And it's a lot less comfortable for the brain to be like, there's a randomness of the universe, and sometimes things just happen, and it's not anything you did.

Leah Kern [00:22:00]:
But, yeah, I share that because it's not the same as your story, what didn't happen to me. But I feel that connection in the sense that, like, I have an education in this specifically. And as a scary situation for a loved one kind of rocked that for a moment of, like, it was like, was it something I did? Was it something she did? I'm a dietitian. I'm her daughter. Should I have told her to do something different? And no. Like, it just these things happen. So, yeah, I just felt called to share that with you.

Erika Bent [00:22:30]:
Yeah. Thanks for sharing that, and I'm so glad your mom is doing okay in her recovery. And I relate to that on so many levels, the experience of what did I do, how can I make sense of this, how can I make sure that it it doesn't happen again, like, how can I find some control? But in that need for control, we often, like, blame ourselves. And I did that so much with cancer. I I felt a lot of guilt and a lot of shame for a long period of time. Like, honestly, sitting here with you and talking about it openly is a reflection of how far I've come in my recovery because I used to not be able to talk about it.

Leah Kern [00:23:09]:
Yeah. I wanna get more into this question of blame and shame. I work with so many clients who this is like an underlying theme where it feels like my health is my fault, whether it's diabetes or an irregular lab or high blood pressure, and in the case of your story, cancer. So you mentioned to me that you had an injury more recently, a spinal cord fracture, and you reflected on how, like, the way that your inner dialogue was in terms of blame looked really different this time around or the more recent time with the spinal cord injury versus when you had cancer. So I'm so curious to hear what that inner dialogue was like those two times, and kind of what you feel like was the reason or the way that you were able to shift it.

Erika Bent [00:24:00]:
I love this question because it was such a radical experience for me. Yeah. Just so your listeners know, I was doing aerial silks as a hobby. I ended up breaking my neck in a pretty serious fall and went through a major reconstructive surgery. And now my neck is made of metal, but I survived it. It was a very traumatic experience. So I have these two very traumatic body experiences in my life, and they were just very different. And to compare them, when I went through cancer, again, I I had so much shame and guilt around it.

Erika Bent [00:24:42]:
I absolutely felt like it was my fault. I felt like there was something wrong with me. My kids challenged my identity because I thought I was a healthy person, quote unquote healthy person. And what did I do to cause this disease. And it was a very shameful experience, and I didn't talk about it for a long time except for the people who are closest to me. And I had to process through that, and I worked really closely with my therapist for a long time to realize that it's not my fault. These things happen. And and blaming myself isn't helping myself heal.

Erika Bent [00:25:21]:
So cut to my spinal cord fracture, which was so traumatic and also a very challenging recovery. I had a completely different experience where I didn't mind sharing about it. And, in fact, people thought it was kind of cool for lack of a better word. Like, you had this crazy accident and you survived it and all of these things, and it was like, check out my scar. I didn't mind talking about it. There was almost like a sense of pride around surviving that in my recovery. And so they were really, really different. And how I make sense of it is the social, cultural lens that we place on health and disease and injury and resilience and survival.

Erika Bent [00:26:12]:
And my reactions around guilt and shame or pride, I don't think were my own. I think they were internalized messages around how we, as a culture, view understand health and people's responsibility for their own health.

Leah Kern [00:26:32]:
Yeah. What's funny to me too is, like, you getting hurt doing aerial silks in a way is sort of like this is gonna feel weird to say, but, like, it's, like, almost is more in your control. It's not like a thing you have to do in life, like a more, like, risky sport. Whereas getting cancer is, like, very much it's not like you chose, like, I'm gonna go do something dangerous today and this happened. Like, it just is a culmination of randomness in the universe, genetics, infinite social determinants. It's just like all of these things. So it's funny that the thing that is sort of more in your control, like, whether or not you engage in a risky hobby is the one that you didn't blame yourself for.

Erika Bent [00:27:13]:
Right. Yeah. Absolutely. And if I think about that fall, like, it kinda was my fault. Like, I I was the one who made the mistake and fell, and yet it was so easy to not go down that path and blame myself. I really was able to embrace self compassion and honor that these things happen and allow myself to just, yeah, have a compassionate approach through my healing. But with cancer, that was so much harder to do.

Leah Kern [00:27:45]:
Yeah. What helped you when you had cancer and also, like, in the wake of it shift into lifting the self blame?

Erika Bent [00:27:58]:
It wasn't my own doing. I think my therapist really helped me with that, and she really helped me access self compassion. I will say I think self compassion work was probably the most powerful thing, just reframing our inner dialogue and being able to acknowledge, like, the the humanness in that experience and learn to unlearn some of those toxic messages that I was internalizing, that it was my fault, that there's something I should have done differently to prevent it, that I could do other things to keep preventing it. I think that's one of the hard things around health is even though I went through conventional treatment, like chemotherapy and radiation, and I, theoretically, am in a place of remission, every day I live with these decisions. Am I gonna do something that I know the research supports might fuel cancer? Did I not exercise that day? Every decision I make on a daily basis is through the lens of what can I do to support my health? And when I make a decision that's more for fun or to support just having a fulfilling full life, there's always that little voice in the back of my head that's like, this might cause cancer. So it's it's not not there, but I think I'm able to respond to that of yes, and if you're not fully living and enjoying your life and feeling good about your life, then then it's not as worthy. Right? And so it's this constant balance, but I really think my therapist helped me to reframe that and embrace self compassion.

Leah Kern [00:29:50]:
Mhmm. Yeah. Self compassion is so powerful. To the what you're saying of, like, this balance of, like, enjoying life, but also being vigilant about, you know, your health, I think about the communities. I know I'm thinking of just, like, in general, like, Europeans who, like, drink a lot and smoke a lot of cigarettes, and there's a lot of, like, epidemiological research showing that they have better health outcomes on, like, a population level. But then I think about the social determinants of they have a better work life balance and spend a lot more time sitting down, enjoying meals together, being in community. And so I think about that in terms of, like, are we gonna go out with friends and have drinks or not have a drink because it's not I don't know if you drink just as an example. The, quote, unquote, like, healthy decision kinda breaks down when you stop thinking about health in terms of the, like, really western what goes into your body determines your health and expand it to more, like, social determinants too of yeah.

Leah Kern [00:30:47]:
Well, going out with friends and connecting and laughing and having a shared experience, that is beneficial for health too. I think it's something we often get, like, tunnel vision for, like, dietary health, exercise, and stuff, and we forget about other factors that are equally, if not more important sometimes for our health outcomes.

Erika Bent [00:31:06]:
Yeah. I completely agree. And that has been my lived experience. I think being in a place of balance around my health and decisions that I can make every day, but just really promoting, like, quality of life too. And there's some really cool research in the cancer space around radical remission, and I won't get too in the weeds about it. But the general theme is they study people with terminal cancer who had gone through all of these conventional treatments and they weren't effective, and then came back to them. And so many of these people actually had a radical remission. So completely cured of their cancer, but it wasn't conventional treatments, and they studied so many people in this who experienced this.

Erika Bent [00:31:53]:
And so much of what they identified were healing were spiritual, mental, or emotional factors, not physical like nutrition or exercise. It was community. It was a sense of hope around your recovery. It was having ways to cope with stress. It was so many other things that were emotional and and spiritual. So it speaks to what you're talking about, that that is sometimes more powerful in healing and longevity.

Leah Kern [00:32:27]:
Yeah. Absolutely. I love that kind of research because I think it really just challenges the, like, Western diet culture approach to health. Are you familiar with the Roseto effect?

Erika Bent [00:32:39]:
Vaguely.

Leah Kern [00:32:40]:
Yeah. Oh, I'll just, like, briefly say it because I'll say it any chance I get. It's I think it's so interesting. So pretty much there is this Italian immigrant community living in Pennsylvania, and they were observed to have really good heart health. And so researchers wanted to understand what was going on because this, like, small immigrant community compared to the greater, like, American Pennsylvania community, there was a big difference in their, like, population level heart health outcomes or status. And when they looked at what was going on with the Italian immigrant community, they were really surprised to find that they were drinking a lot of alcohol, having a lot of meat and butter, like, lard, the kinds of things that we've always been taught are bad for your heart health. And when they investigated further, they were able to find that it really had to do with the social and community context of this immigrant community. And as they became more assimilated into the greater Pennsylvania community and future you know, the generations got further and away from that, The original folks who immigrated, they saw that the the heart health protective benefit started to go down, which was like a sort of a more confirmation that this is what was happening.

Leah Kern [00:33:57]:
And this kind of research has been replicated in so many other communities. It's it's a common, like, phenomenon, but I just think that's it's so beautiful and hopeful to me that there's more going on than just calories in, calories out. Like, we're not robots. Like, there's the power of community connection over food. As a dietitian, it's kinda funny because I'm like, okay. I literally studied food for 6 years, and, like, I I don't believe it's that important at the end of the day.

Erika Bent [00:34:25]:
Yeah. Wow. It's so powerful. And humans were so complex. And our shared humanity, like, when we're connecting and in community, like, how we feed off of each other in this healing capacity is, like, remarkable. Yeah. Thanks for sharing that.

Leah Kern [00:34:44]:
Of course. Yeah. I love nerding out about that stuff. Is there anything that you feel like you would wanna share with someone who's currently listening to this? And maybe they don't have cancer, maybe they do, but who's blaming themself for any number of health outcomes?

Erika Bent [00:35:03]:
I love that question. As much as I can impart compassion towards them the same way that I did for myself, just a reminder that it's not their fault. And there's the just world belief, right, that when we're in times of stress, we try to make sense and find certainty, and so we tend to have this belief that good things happen to good people and bad things happen to bad people. And so when a bad thing happens, we it's quick to internalize this idea that we did something wrong. Right? Or that shame kind of rears its ugly head, and we're just stuck in that isolated shame spiral. And so I just encourage people to find self compassion, but when they struggle with that, to find community. So I think communities, like, we're just talking about can be so healing, but can pull us out of that shame spiral and just allow it to penetrate so that we can heal ourselves. The other thing that I would say is to be an advocate for yourself and to to feel okay advocating and saying no and asserting yourself when it doesn't feel right, whatever the recommendation is.

Leah Kern [00:36:27]:
Yeah. I love that advice. You're the expert of your body at the end of all of this. You live in there every day and you have to be like a liaison between the people who aren't in your body and yourself. I also love this idea of community because I heard somewhere once, Will said, that shame thrives in the dark, and I think community can help us kinda air it out. Just get it out there.

Erika Bent [00:36:51]:
Yeah. Absolutely. I think Brene Brown says empathy is the antidote to shame.

Leah Kern [00:36:57]:
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I wanna ask you some of the questions that I ask everyone who comes on the podcast. Is there anything else that you were hoping to share about your story or about navigating a diagnosis like cancer and that intersection with disordered eating and body image? Anything that we missed.

Erika Bent [00:37:20]:
I think the only thing that I would add is when going through an eating disorder, disordered eating, or cancer, anything like health related, I think a common experience is to feel disconnected to one's body, almost like you're at war with your body. Like, your mind and your body are battling it out or your body starts to not feel like your own. And I I think that can feel really isolating and confusing. Why is my body not healing when I'm doing all of these things to try to make it heal? Whatever the mass internal dialogue is. And for me, it was something like that disconnection was a pathway to blame my body, berate my body, stay in that place of criticism. Like, it just fueled that inner dialogue that actually made things a lot worse and more disconnected. And for me, I had to be really aware of of that and decide intentionally to turn inward and remember that my body and my mind, like, we are 1. We're not separate.

Erika Bent [00:38:31]:
We're, like, in this together. We're in this battle together, and to not fight it and to not blame it and to find ways to stay connected to oneself through that process is is hard, but I think really important.

Leah Kern [00:38:46]:
Yeah. And as you're talking, I'm thinking about how, like, so much of the intuitive eating messaging is like your body's on your team, your body's has your best interest in mind. Your body knows the way. And I imagine in a situation like getting cancer, it's like, is it on my team? Like, does it know the way? Does it have my best interest in mind? And I like what you said about, like, your mind and body, like, on the same page of it's trying as best it can to fight the cancer and to help you heal from that. So it's like it still is on your team even if you're dealing with something that's kind of not ideal. I guess that's at least what comes into my brain, but I wonder how you reconciled that.

Erika Bent [00:39:25]:
Yeah. Kind of the same way. Like, it's not my body's fault that we got cancer and we got sick or that we're struggling with whatever it is that we're struggling with. And by blaming it, I think it's easy to blame it. Right? Like, we want, again, a sense of control. We want to make find certainty when there is no certainty. And in the same way it happens in eating disorders. Right? Like, we're we're disordered eating where we fixate on the body as a way to manipulate or control.

Erika Bent [00:39:57]:
Like, I can just change my body, and then it will help me heal my internal struggle around, like, self worth or identity or something deeper. I think the same thing happens in illness where we blame our bodies because it's tangible and we can. But by doing so, I think it just perpetuates that disconnection and and and it can even exacerbate illness, I think. So it's just a reminder that, like, it's not our body's fault. It's not our fault. And how can we heal together or as, like, a unified stance?

Leah Kern [00:40:37]:
I'm thinking so much about how trendy, I guess, manifestation is right now and how when something bad happens to you, like getting cancer, how if you were subscribed to those kind of you create your reality and everything, and then it's like, oh no. And what should I do to create this? Just that kind of like toxic dark side of some of that, like, pseudo spiritual spaces.

Erika Bent [00:41:03]:
Yeah. It's tricky. Right? Because, like, on the one hand, where you focus your mind can is so powerful. So if you're like, for me in my healing, like, with both of my injury and my illness, I had this mindset that I was gonna get through it, and I was gonna do everything I could to survive and recover. And I think that is really powerful. Right? And in thinking of manifesting, like, that's gonna propel you into action and, like, do what you need to do to support yourself through it. But on the one hand, if we hold those things too rigidly or too tightly, then it can propel us into this these, like, toxic messages that we cause the problem. Or if you do something wrong, again, that that fuels guilt and shame, and that can be actually more detrimental.

Erika Bent [00:41:57]:
I think with any of these recommendations, it can be helpful to take what fits and lead the rest and always come up from a place of balance for yourself.

Leah Kern [00:42:08]:
I love that. You have the autonomy to pick and choose what feels good to integrate. You don't have to take it all. What is your biggest diet culture pet peeve?

Erika Bent [00:42:18]:
Goodness. There's so many. I mean, the one that is coming to mind right now is when okay. Well, there's 2 coming to mind. 1 we've talked about already, moralizing foods. And that to me is just so toxic that we just need to let people choose the foods they wanna enjoy, and it's like, we've talked about in this whole episode, food is medicine in both a physical way, but also in a mental health spiritual way. And, like, we have to be able to enjoy food. So moralizing food takes the pleasure away from it, and I that bothers me.

Erika Bent [00:42:56]:
The other thing is when people fat shame or comment on their bodies negatively. And for that to be so normal and almost, like, if you're not part of the fat shaming culture, then you're not in. There's almost like an otherness to body acceptance or body neutrality. Yeah. Those two things.

Leah Kern [00:43:20]:
The other question I'd like to ask everyone who comes on is, what does intuition mean to you and how do you experience it?

Erika Bent [00:43:28]:
I love that question. Intuition to me is a just an intuitive knowing, like, from the, like, a deep guttural, visceral place in your body, just feeling a sense of connectedness to whatever is that you're experiencing. I think there's ancestral wisdom that shows up in intuition. We're connected to generations past and the things that are deeply real around humanity just have a way of living on through us.

Leah Kern [00:44:14]:
It's so beautiful. I love that. I love the ideas around generational wisdom and and intuition. I think that the things that feel right and that feel good, it's, like, beyond it just feeling good for us, but it's, like, has felt good for people for a long time. Like, whether that's, like, time outside or cooking or I don't know. Those are the things that at least feel good for me. So maybe what's felt good for my people before me.

Erika Bent [00:44:41]:
Yeah. Exactly. And, like, we've talked about just connection, community, And some of those things just feel so deeply healing, and that, I think I mean, clearly, is something that humanity has experienced since we've existed.

Leah Kern [00:44:58]:
I love this conversation so much. Is there and I'll ask again, and just in case, is there anything else in your heart that you're wanting to share?

Erika Bent [00:45:05]:
Just thank you. Thank you for allowing me to be here today, for sharing my story. It's it's healing for me too. Yeah.

Leah Kern [00:45:15]:
I'm so glad that we got connected and I think you bring a really unique perspective and it will be super healing for people to hear as well. And, yeah, I'm grateful for you coming on it. It's a vulnerable topic. Where can someone find you to learn more about your work or to stay in touch?

Erika Bent [00:45:34]:
Yeah. They can find me on my website at cypresswellnesscollective.org, and I'm on Instagram at Cypress Wellness.

Leah Kern [00:45:43]:
Awesome. I'll link to both of those in the show notes. Thank you so much, Erica.

Erika Bent [00:45:47]:
Thank you, Leah. Thanks so much.

Leah Kern [00:45:54]:
Thanks so much for tuning in to this week's episode of Shoulders Down. If If you enjoyed the episode, if it inspired you, or if you learned something, consider sharing it with someone to help spread the anti diet message. A special thanks to Softer Sounds for producing the podcast and making these conversations sound as beautiful as they feel. For more intuitive eating and body image support, visit leokernrd.com and check out the blog and our free resources. To stay in tune with me and what's happening in my business and personal life, subscribe to my newsletter at leokeurnrd.com/newsletter. Thanks for listening. Talk to you soon.